Tag Archives: faith

Bible, Day 13, and that Game of Thrones finale!!!

Job 30:1-31:40

Job is still complaining or repeating his grievances or being Ed Sheeran, whatever and he tells God to more directly lat out his sins so that he could learn from his mistakes or at least know exactly why he is being punished (again, we must remember that Satan and God had a meaningless bet based on pride to put Job’s life in shambles and see what makes him tick)

Job 31:23 – “For I dreaded destruction from God, and for fear of his splendor I could not do such things.” Oooooo, this makes me super uncomfortable… That’s why you don’t do bad thing like coveting people’s wives and beating orphans? Because god might hurt you? Lol, how well did that work out for you?

 

Bible, Day 10, and He’s really doing Job wrong

Job 19:1-21:34

Summary: More blathering from Zophar, but Job makes some good good points later on in this section. And I mean good from an atheist’s point of view.

19:3 – “a rebuke that dishonors me” – oh poor thing and your honor

19:13-20  – Holy shit, I’m just now realizing that Job’s community is treating him badly. Everyone’s treating him like shit. So his servants all die and all his farming is destroyed, then his kids are killed, and then he gets leprosy. On top of it all, everyone thinks he’s evil or has lost God’s favor and should be punished by everyone else as well as God. Awesome.

20:3 – Dishonor! Dishonor on you! Dishonor on your cow!

:19 – Oh look, the oppression of the poor is bad enough to give people who do it the name of evildoers who will earn God’s wrath. And yet in America we have one of the most religious populations in the developed world, and also the greatest pushback on helping the poor- and I mean REALLY helping the poor, not just dropping a few coins in the red bucket come Christmas, or even giving money to the church, unless your church has a hardworking charity aspect. Let’s look more closely at “seized houses he did not build”. I don’t know if you know this, but you can’t build houses – cardboard or not – just willy nilly, and so people can come take it, or call the police to do so. If you need somewhere to sleep, you better find a bridge, you fucking homeless fucker!

:29 – Such is the fate? Not all the time! Hell, not even most of the time. Where is Zophar getting his history lessons?

21:7  – Yes. Why do they? Seriously?

:19 – “It is said ‘God stores up man’s punishment for his sons.’ Let him repay the man himself, so that he will know it!

kermit drinking tea

 

Bible, Day 9, And there are no atheists in fox holes, as they say

Job 15:1-18:21

Summary: The back-and-forth continues. I was hoping they would have gotten to the point by now. Alas, we’re walking through the murkiest mud just to end up how we all know it would end. Of course, many people say it’s the journey which counts (I have always disagreed with this sentiment, along with ones like “it’s the small things that matter” or “money can’t buy you happiness”). Here are some fun bits I actually enjoyed reading.

Job 15:1-19 – So Eliphaz tells ol’ buddy Job that the words of the forefathers and wise men and et cetera wouldn’t say useless things or give bad advice. And while we should always honor the old guy in a place where men die young, sometimes things change or things are currently better understood or the situation at hand is completely different from whatever the old-timers have faced in the past, and sometimes the ‘advice’ of the old-timers comes out to be complete bullshit said from people who didn’t truly understand all the points of view. (You know some of the people who put ‘colored’ and ‘whites’ signs on their restaurants or the people who dragged black people to the forest to hang them, some of them are still alive, and some of them had children who are certainly still alive- do you think they didn’t pass down some awful ‘advice’? )

Job 15:18 –  So everyone suffers, or just wicked men? I’m not sure. The -Ites are try their hand in saying that things will be well for him if he would just be a good little Christian (and wait, I suppose), but Job is having NONE of it. All his life he’s had not to fight, but he’s been a good boy and he doesn’t want to be tortured if he was good. Then the -Ites dare to say that Job shouldn’t rise against God or complain about his treatment because only bad men do that and as long as he is pure and righteous thing will be alright for him. He’s just gotta wait until the bet is over.

No, seriously, I have no idea how this ends but I believe this should have been over a long time ago.

A regular person would have stopped this a long time ago- probably after seeing the servants all with slit throats, or maybe after killing a bunch of kids. Again, is God eating popcorn and watching all this unfold, watching as Job gets angry at himself and his situation, and watching the -Ites speak on His behalf although this was all a twisted little game between him and Satan so that these chapters, this book could be written in the Bible and shown to other people who have bad things happen to them.

But this shows me, things can always get worse and worse and worse, and then you can even die- but at least you’ll be in heaven. You suffered for nothing, but God, the shoddy psychopath, is pleased.

Bible Study, Day 8, and, “Your maxims are proverbs of ashes.”

Job 11:1-14:22

(13:12) This is what I think every time any religious believer starts spewing age-old arguments for whatever is wrong with their religions. “Your maxims are proverbs of ashes”! Damn, this spoke to me so well I squealed like a child. I wish I had spoken these words, or something like them, before I had read them, but now I definitely will spit these out one day- how about to a devout Christian? Will they know this came from the Bible? Of course, different translations and all, it may be hard to recognize the words and sentiment of this verse, but it’s good.

11:4-6 – This would  be an awesome comeback if, again, God hadn’t said in the previous chapters that Job was blameless and pure. It may be true that “God has even forgotten some of [Job’s] sin”, BUT if this was to be a poignant point, it would need to stay forgotten. To say God forgot and that he has debt to pay would mean it’s not forgotten -______-

11:13-20 – So basically, when things don’t go so right for you, know that you’re awesome and good with God and things will get better. You know, like Joel Osteen and Donald Trump. Yea, you see where this might get ornery? There are people who most people generally believe are the scum of the Earth, but as long as they believe they are right with God, they’ll feel well about what they’re doing, and continue to do it. Instead of thinking that perhaps it was luck or they’re siphoning the faith of others or using the less lucky to their own nefarious ends- they think God has allowed this to happen because it’s a good thing, or something.

On the plus side, if you ARE doing all you can do to stay righteous and be good and all the shiznit, this is all you can do when things go wrong. Other than commit suicide. But think about the people you love, and if you don’t love a lotta people, think of the possibility of you fucking your suicide up and you become a vegetable or a drooling imbecile until you die- or various other things that can go even more wrong than suicide. Personally that’s one of the reasons why I haven’t for so long. I don’t want to get fucked up in the head any more than I am, lol

Job 12-13 – So Job knows how awesome and powerful  God is, and that, in this Bible-babble land, if you’re a good person, you’ll have a good life. He makes the awesome point that, yea, that helps him not one bit. Maybe he’s being impatient, but he wants to get rid of his misfortune NOW. And who wouldn’t? Especially if all your friends are saying that God will come in and swoop him off his feet in TLC. And all he asks is for God to tell him what he did wrong, or kill him. Of course, God isn’t going to answer because Job didn’t do anything wrong and He isn’t going to kill Job because…because….because???? I guess the bet with Satan is still on?

Job 14– The subtitle says “Man is Frail” for this chapter, comparing humans to trees and stuff that can grow back (and let’s not forget that trees don’t care about living or dying) and that humans don’t have much so at least God can keep tabs and bring sins up receipt-like before he starts torturing his subjects.

Bible. Day 7, and Job is Theon Greyjoy

Job 8:1-10:22

Summary: It’s Bildad’s turn to talk some sense into Job. This seems to be goldmine of Christian apologetics. Job’s friends keep giving reasons (and not very good ones) on why Job should be more hopeful and optimistic about his suffering, because he is ‘blameless’, et cetera, and good things would come to him eventually.

I’m just thinking. The kids are dead though. Were they not blameless that they all had to die? What about the servants? None of them were worth not dying so that God could show off what a good little servant Job is? You know what this reminds me of?

Theon shaving Ramsey

The guy in the chair is Ramsey Bolton. The guy shaving him is Theon Greyjoy (just for those who live under a rock). Ramsey tortured the halibut out of Theon (even chopped off his dick) and Theon was then ordered to shave Ramsey- you know, the old-fashioned way with a blade. And instead of going Sweeney Todd on his ass, Theon carefully shaves away the fuzz. And this is what this rapidly-becoming-uninteresting book seems to be about. Worship the sky-daddy even when he’s doing bad things because eventually good things will happen (the least of which is heaven, I suppose. Because once you’re dead…)- in Theon’s case he does go back a changed and broken man. Maybe that’s how God likes ’em.

Gotta say I’m getting pretty bored, and I’m not going to add the rating system until something majorly different happens in this book (I won’t hold my breath though). Some things to point out however:

8:5-7 – But why make him go through all this in the first place, and it’s making me awful mad that they’re going through these chapters of discussion when this all started because God wanted to prove to Satan that his servants are Hodor-level servants. Like, does all this suffering for faith really apply when the beginning of this was a silly bet?

9:17-20 – Okay, right, so, you can’t really argue with god because 1) he could do anything he wants with you and if things are shitty now, how would they be if God was actually angry and 2) God’s always right so he can’t really argue for different treatment. He’s miserable and he doesn’t know why, so why go on? Poor dude is asking for death because he’s so unhappy, and he feels as if stuck in a spider’s web. And for what?

9:32-35 – A reasonable request. If we were to bother God with our complaints, we’re going to need a bit more armor, just in case he gets angry. Such a foolish array of power struggles. And again, FOR NO REASON.

10:2 – This part makes me really unhappy, and really cemented my thoughts so far- Job hasn’t done anything wrong, and he’s willing to do anything to find out what he did wrong so that he can stop the torture. How could anyone start reading this book and think God is a swell guy?

P.S. ERM. So this is how people spoke these days? Each person gets their turn and such? This reads exactly like a fairy tale. In fact, it reads like a fairy tale in a fictional book reciting a fairy tale (like something the book made up). Now, if these were letters, I could possibly understand, but I highly doubt this is how they spoke to each other. Unless this is all made up. Which is was, of course.

Bible! Day 6, and why Mother Teresa is a saint (though she was terrible)

Job 4:1-7:21

Summary: Pep talk from Eliphaz, and Job’s pity party continues

4:7-11 – Okay, I have NO idea where this naivete comes from, and I’m pretty sure ol’ Eliphaz is talking about the present life and not what sowage you get once you enter the pearly gates. I could be wrong though. 7- “Should not your piety be your confidence and your blameless ways your hope?”  I suppose, if you believe that you’ll eventually get the good you deserve after a bad stroke, but Jesus, why go through the bad, for what reason? Because God likes to test you and see you come back?

21 – “Are not the cords of their tent pulled up, so that they die without wisdom?” – Is wisdom really worth your whole family getting killed and being tortured? Job was a pretty awesome guy before all this (and God said so, to Satan), and he still hasn’t cursed God (even though this is definitely partly his fault, the jackass), what’s the point of this? Oh, makes for a good story doesn’t it? It’s a good plothole filler for all the times people go through hardship- it all means something, it’s fantastic, it’s Christian, suffering is deliverance. Main reason why the maniac Mother Teresa is becoming a saint.

Job 5:13 onward – “He catches the wise in their craftiness and the schemes of the wily are swept away.” But he let Satan destroy all Job had for a silly bet that benefits NO ONE.

Flashback– Okay, so angels and Satan go visit God. Where is God located that they have to travel to see him????

Job 7:16-17 – “I despise my life; I would not live forever. Let me alone; my days have no meaning.” OKAY THE JOKE’S NOT FUNNY ANYMORE. How can anyone read this and be anything but irate? Well, there is still more to this discussion. Maybe I’ll feel better after the next reading.

  1. Plot  – 5, I’m very much interested on how this discussion develops….
  2. Credibility – 5, Oh yea, this has happened many many many times in life
  3. Reliability – 4, Sure one can rely on this for support, but I wouldn’t. It just isn’t enough, sorry.
  4. Clarity – 5, Crystal Clear.
  5. Reality – 5, Even though I, personally, won’t find solace in these verses, I think many people do. This discussion is the basis of many faiths- I don’t understand why I haven’t heard more of Job on the whole. Maybe because he’s overshadowed by another man whose name starts with J.

When the Religious accuse Atheists of Being Religious

a.k.a. Where Shinashi Goes Crazy With Gifs

So there seems to be this odd trend that a believer of some such religion… Who am I foolin’? It’s Christianity. Not to say that there aren’t Jewish or Muslim people running around on a leash tied to a tree, but hey… In any case, there’s this trend where they say that atheism is the same as a religion.

simon-confusedNo, wait, hear me out for a bit, because I have to work on some German– oh, no I don’t! Or, if you believe this, just keep nodding your head.

The most common retort is that we believe some things without evidence, like how we believe that a doctor could help us without ever knowing that doctor before, or that a computer would work when you turn it on. You see, that’s like having faith in God. Except when a doctor fails or a computer doesn’t work, you complain about the doctor just wanting your money and not caring about people, or that technology is super unreliable. For some reason, that doesn’t work with god. You have this untouchable faith that somehow it works out in god’s favor, and when that happens, it also works for yours. Which is really sweet, actually… But not like ‘having faith’ in a doctor or computer. Can we worship those then? Can we attribute theistic characteristics to a doctor or computer? Ah… I think that would be idolizing them…

Ryan confused

Or how we believe that something came from nothing in the Big Bang Theory, just like Christians believe that God made the universe from nothing on a whim apparently because what else is he to do? What was he doing before he made the universe? Did he make multiple universes? Was there a first universe? What was he doing before that first universe?

And anyway, it’s not that there was nothing before the Big Bang happened. Do they really think that ‘poof’ the universe was made? No! There was some things before all that happened! Of course there was! Wikipedia, google, all those things!

Cant remember name is confused

I wanted this to be a snippet! It’s going to be a snippet, damn it! No, it’s not.

The most recent bit was yours truly’s Moment of Inspiration. Starting from a  Why Evolution is True post  about an anti-atheist billboard in New York…. I was especially drawn to this post because the word ‘anti-atheist’ strikes at the semantic part of me like anti-abortion (when talking about ‘pro-life’ people) or anti-life (when talking about ‘pro-choice’- They’re both in quotes because of specific reasons that I will talk about later perhaps). In any case, it was anti-atheist. I figure anti as being ‘antagonistic’ or, at least, ‘against’. So, yea, that billboard was anti-atheist. Hey, I don’t care that Answers in Genesis is anti-atheist. But I did care about their message.

So I went to their Thank God You’re Wrong site page.

So I go through a couple paragraphs that are true. Those Bible passages do say that. And most skeptics do think we’re in the right (not necessarily that we’ve all won anything) when a believer can’t tell us where god is but, apparently, they can tell us where god was, once, according to your particular sect- or even religion.

Then I got to this little gem:

What people often do not realize is that even if God appeared on the earth (which He has, in the person of Jesus Christ), we did not exist in eternity past and do not know the future, so we cannot prove by any human standard that He is eternal.

Santana confusedThere are these things called maps and stars and rivers… They have been renamed over time (well, maybe not the stars) but we are pretty certain that they were there in Biblical times, in almost the same positions as they are now. I’m just thinking that maybe, perhaps, quite possibly…. No, this is a snippet! But I’m just thinking, couldn’t Jesus just have lived forever? And not in some dubious seat-in-heaven? Perhaps, I don’t know, he could come back every once in a while, and not just once in the thousands of years of  Biblical fantasy? Hell, not just once- for just about 30 years he appeared and now he’s gone. Methuselah, whatever the hell he did, apparently lived to his 900s… Really, god has multiple ways of making himself obvious- putting “I am real” in clouds over the Earth, forever. Why are the only ways he’s making himself ‘apparent’ is through which that could be explained easily by something else, or that which can be disproved?

Only an eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing being could prove the existence of the God described in the Bible

I just can’t even begin to understand this! He could easily, easily, EASILY do it. He’s all-powerful and all-knowing, yet he can’t figure out how to prove it, or  are there things he can’t do, there are some things supposedly not possible for him to do? There are so many ways, for all eternity, that he could prove his existence. SO MANY!!! If he existed, the only reason he wouldn’t do it is because he doesn’t WANT to, And I can get that. He seems to get mad at some things, so I can understand that he wouldn’t want to go through all that trouble, or whatever is going on in his spirit.

When we start from the Bible, we can see evidences that powerfully confirm what God has already said.

spongebob waitingI actually misread this sentence the first time, thinking they meant that we should assume that the Bible is true, so everything God had said in it is true. Even though Answers in Genesis obviously believe that, I do now believe they meant that we should literally start with the Bible.

We don’t believe God exists and is true only because He says so.

True… But even if everything else was untrue, since part of the reason of believing god exist is because he says he does (I would put a gif, but I’m just… Gah!), AND there’s not much else you need to follow a religion than an all-knowing and all-powerful god saying you would suffer for all eternity if you don’t believe in him- well… You’ll probably still believe in him. Anyway!

I’mma take on two sentences at once:

Unfortunately, skeptics seldom take time to confirm the detailed fulfilled prophecies of the Bible. Given our inability to prove the eternal God by our own human standard, ignoring these is a serious error indeed. For example, God Himself identifies accurate foretelling of the future to be what separates Him from all false ideas of God.

WHAT? WHAT?! Are you freakin’ serious? You can go on multiple binges of googling and find discussions of both sides of this prophetic dilemma Maybe this site is old? I went a’googling, and some time ago I watched multiple videos of such fulfilled prophecies, which I thought was super interesting, and was like, “Ah! So that is a good case!” Of course, the fulfilled prophecies aren’t really fulfilled. The two that I want to put of first (because Answers in Genesis put them forward) are the above and the prophecies of Daniel. On the site, there are several Bible verses after that last quoted sentence. They won’t transfer over for some reason, but go on and read them.

Finished? Alright.

WHAT? Those were just Bible verses that say that God says that he himself is true, which helps nothing because I don’t believe in the Bible literally anyway, and I will not go on that merry-go-round, good sir!

And then I clicked on the link about more ‘fulfilled prophecies’. I saw Daniel’s up front, and was like, “Well, that sounds about right.” And then I did, like, five minutes of research.  First I read why it’s true (Daniel prophesied fallen empires and the first coming of Christ- according to some religions- and his resurrection- according to some sects, etc.), and then why it’s not true (Daniel didn’t write Daniel, and the authors wrote after Daniel may have existed and, more importantly, wrote them after the whole fallen empires and Christ had come, died, and perhaps resurrected and beyond that: some characters in Daniel are completely fabricated and important kills were done by other people and coups done by yet even more people).

So I went back to ol’ Fulfilled Prophecies to check this back out and see what they say. First:

Critics of the Bible, for instance, have squirmed over the prophetic insights of Daniel, the sixth-century BC Jewish prophet in Babylon. 

Squirmed, really? Well we are all a bit condescending when we think we are right. Every last one of us. But I read this and the semantic logician in me blinked about a dozen times at this:

Desperate to counter the implications of this prophetic phenomenon, nineteenth-century skeptics concocted dating schemes that placed the time of Daniel’s writing after the events. Careful research by modern textual scholars, however, has validated the early origin of this prophecy, establishing Daniel as the authentic author.

First, so… There are critics of the Bible who have tackled these prophetic insights. From the 19th freakin’ century (and, as I researched, people even before then! And afterwards, of course). So I read up on a multitude of these dating schemes (of which there are many, many, many) and the modern textual scholars. This one was the only scholar that I could lean on, because all the other websites were referring to the Bible which said Daniel was true (and this one! My bad!). I read the prophesies myself- They seem fairly accurate at first look because I don’t know any better, and the contention (as we all may know) comes from whether or not the Book of Daniel was written after the what happened in the prophesies already came true. At the very least, we all know they were written about a guy named Daniel. I would be more invested on figuring out the whole truth of the matter if both sides didn’t reduce the other as believers and nonbelievers. If I go to non-biased sites, (like Wikipedia), they all say that the Book of Daniel was written after the prophesies ‘came true’, but little of the Christian contentions with it. I would like to read a genuine back and forth between the two.

In any case, there are blatant lies from this site. People have, and continue to tackle, at least, Daniel’s prophecies, and few ‘modern textual scholars’ have websites. Perhaps I should read books? (I looked. Not exactly teeming. Now books on INTERPRETATION of the Book of Daniel, take ya pick) And those ‘dating schemes’? Yea, a bit more than a little Gargamel antics. The biggest one I remember is that many of Daniel’s prophesies didn’t come true (and some of the ones that did, didn’t come true the way he said it would. Wouldn’t that mean they didn’t come true?

If you give the proof of the Bible in Daniel’s prophetic visions, then his inaccuracies would be proof against the Bible, right?

He is nope

Of course not. But, apparently, I believe that such a sensible conclusion can be made because of the last Religious accusing Atheists of being Religious point I found most contentious:

We engage in circular logic. Here’s a good place where we have examples of atheistic circular reasoning, and here’s another, and lastly, here.

Let’s start with Here #1: Most atheists I know start with number seven of example 1, or number five or seven of example two. I know no one who starts with number one.

#2. The author takes on a hypothetical conversation with an atheist. The butt of which is that the atheist starts with not believing in god, and therefore doesn’t believe in peoples’ interactions with god, but who only disbelieves that because he doesn’t believe in god in the first place…. …. …. Really? Now, I don’t know everything for certain, of course, but all the interactions I’ve heard have been false or explainable by something else. So we don’t disbelieve because god first doesn’t exist; it is because the interactions have been proven untrue and/or unreliable.

To put it on a personal template, Younger Brother #1 sees spirits. Most of my family believes they are spirits, anyway. (Older Brother and I don’t believe it is so… And the fact that Younger Brother #1 has astigmatism and the family has a history of mental disorders, pushes me to a more naturalistic conclusion).

One day, Younger Brother #1 and Younger Brother #2 are in the living room. YB1, as he tells it, was watching a spirit by the window. Eventually, it leaps out the window. Just as it leaps out the window, the blinds shake. YB1 sees the blind shakes, and YB2 confirms it. As far as I know, everyone else believes them.

I told all o’ ’em I didn’t. I told them I don’t believe it was a spirit, and that, if the blinds moved, something else must of happened to them (and they say that the window wasn’t open).

Mama was the one to say that the only reason I thought that was because I don’t believe in the supernatural in the first place. I had been momentarily at a loss because the only reason anyone else would believe it is if 1) they were supernaturally inclined and 2) probably if they were Christian. I don’t see someone from another religion (a religion that precludes contact with spirits, for example) believing my brothers either.

But on this vein, I had to think, was I engaged in circular reasoning (those words weren’t used exactly)? Then I thought… No, there’s nothing that helps me believe it more other than it’s my brothers saying it. There is that for my disbelief: my brothers could be lying, accidentally or otherwise, or the movement of the blinds was caused by something else.

I told Mama something along those lines, and she asked me, why would my brothers lie? The most common reason people lie with wild tales is so they can embellish a story. We’ve all done it, I’ve done it, your great-great-grandmother done it. And what’s this embellishment in the eyes of a great many believers? Truth Not untrue. To the nonbelievers? A lie. A bit unbelievable.

Unless my brothers say otherwise, I will never know the ultimate truth. But the story above being truth hinges on your beliefs and whether my brothers are reliable in this context. Do you believe? Why or why not?

To tackle #3’s insight on atheist circular reasoning from Conservapedia is especially hilarious: They say that Muslims (as well as atheists) engage circular reasoning:

They argue that the Qur’an is true because it is the Word of Allah, that it is the Word of Allah because it says so, and that we can rely on it because it is true.

suppresed 1suppresed 2suppresed 3

Okay, I’ll stop. But that is absolutely knee-slapping for anyone. But this makes it even better:

Person 1:”He is very ugly.”

Person 2: Why do you say that?”

Person 1: “Because he is so unattractive.”

Yea, that’s circular logic, but NO ONE DOES THAT. If you have someone saying someone else is unattractive nine times out of nine they can give you a list of reasons. “Because he is” is quickly dismissed. I know it’s just an example but of what goes on in circular reasoning, but it was terrible.

All in all, that was only a few ways the religious accuse atheists of being religious. Well, let me make clear, some religious folks accuse some atheists of being religious. Also, in defending their beliefs, I don’t know any atheists who simply start of with god is nonexistent (but instead start with the Bible is inaccurate, contradictory, and untrue), but also I don’t know many believers who simply start with God exists (but that the Bible is mostly accurate and true, or completely accurate and true if you view it as a combination of metaphor, human error, and literal prose; or certain supposedly supernatural events can be explained by the god and spirits of the Bible working in the natural world).

Also, Answers in Genesis is a terrible website. I could write years on that place alone, but the whole Atheists are just like Believers bit was getting on my nerves. If we are so alike, how could anyone say atheists are wrong?