Religious Mentality is bad and dangerous: How can you believe this?

I’m about to do something unseemly.

*SCREECHES*

*cough*

This post will contain some large pictures, but they are Facebook statuses, so quick reads. This is also mostly ranting, but the title is not without its evidence.

So a person on my friends’ list on Facebook posted this (click on it, it doesn’t require a Facebook account): Obamacare requires RFID chip a.k.a. Mark of the Beast

Part 1 against RFID

 

Now, I saw the picture and crap below first because I’m used to ignoring Green’s non-humorous posts. I clicked on the ‘See More’ and promptly dismissed it. I then rechecked her status and became incensed.

Part 2 against RFID

 

People are represented by my love of certain colors. Purple is someone I don’t know, but agree with, Light Blue is a good gay friend from Facebook who happens to also be friends with Green. I’m Dark Blue/Cobalt. Light Purple is someone I don’t know but wasn’t conclusive enough to get a better color. Yellow is Green’s family member, who has a point, but I don’t care for at all.

Like I said, I was incensed. As of now, I see that I haven’t directly called Green stupid as Yellow perpetuates. However, I think I knew subconsciously that I feel Green is an idiotic right-wingnut, so I never called Yellow on it. She said she did a lot of research; as I said, I spent two minutes on google, quickly glancing over the obviously popular conspiracy sites that first came up (*SCREECHES*) and found several sites that said that  this CHAIN MAIL LETTER that may have originated in Bill Clinton’s time in office is a complete HOAX.

Who said anything about her religion or slamming it? And why can’t I say my not-so-nice stuff? Can you imagine a world where nobody calls someone an ass or stupid? Do you know why we say such things? It IS like a slap to the face, and it makes you refocus sometimes- at least it does to me. Whenever I am insulted, I make sure to see if they are right. If they are, I will probably say I don’t care, but I won’t say some stupid shit like ‘you don’t have the right to say that to me’ because they do, especially if I’m being exactly an ass or stupid.

Part 3 against RFID

 

What is Yellow typing on, her flip phone? Or maybe, damn that autocorrect? Freakin’ a.

What’s driving me bonkers now is that Yellow seems to be just fine with Green putting this on Facebook so that her couple hundred friends and family can see. This post is, I repeat, a horrendous, evil lie and if you believe it and share it, I think you’re terrible. As I backstep in my last comment, I know I’m coming off harsh, but there is no damn excuse! And it’s because of the Religious Mentality, which Green exhibited with her first comment back to me- more on that later.

Good thing Grey comes in and tries to talk sense on all sides, in a way. I don’t believe in the Bible, as you can probably tell, but all that is true AND IN GREEN’S BIBLE. Why can’t she follow her Bible? That is full of contradictions… But you can read the language of the chain mail, it’s so obvious. So damn obvious! To this Green’s Grey! A fellow believer who is spouting scriptures one after another- sweet Jesus!

Part 4 Against RFID

 

And here’s another thing, helpfully pointed out by the near-stupid Black. If this was true, there is NO WAY IN HELL it would pass. A great many people would try to get it destroyed. Plus, you have to choose Obama’s proposed healthcare plan. Wouldn’t that mean anyone not on the plan would be unaffected? Oh, right. Ya’ll don’t have the Mark of the Beast. You’re just trying to convert people to Godly ways because UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE is how SATAN is trying to get you. You see where Republican Jesus is coming from?

Both Grey and Yellow have a point. I have mine. But how can Grey think this is not being ‘hideously misinformed’? How?! This is Universal Healthcare=Mark of the fucking Beast=Antichrist coming soon. This is beyond freaking misinformed, this is downright evil. As of now, this ‘article’ has 89, 300 shares. Not eight-hundred, eight thousand… EIGHTY FUCKING THOUSAND- seven hundred shares from ninety thousand! Just so a certain troll can dredge up hatred, probably for Universal Healthcare.

But because I am being mean , harsh, an ass, condescending, I’m not worth listening to. I need to be respectful of the person spreading this shit around because she’s been misinformed. No, Green needs to be slapped, and slapped hard.

Part 5 Against RFID

 

This is just me being a merciless ass. As you can see, by the end of our conversation, Yellow has yet to admit that Green is completely wrong. Like I said above, this isn’t about opinions. It’s either you are right or wrong!  You don’t simply ‘disagree’ with someone that George Washington was the first president and another said Abraham Lincoln. It is not your ‘opinion’ that 3+3=6 and so-and-so said 19. This is fact or fiction.

I’ve looked up this RFID stuff. I can’t find a single site supporting this hoax (private, personal, or freakin’ youtube) that isn’t steeped in Mark of the Beast garbage. Nor can I find a site that calls this a hoax that isn’t rained down with crazy-ass believers who think this is true.

And this is Religious Mentality at its worst, and doing the most damage. This is making Obamacare look so bad it’s not even funny. If you’re not in need of it and have not sought to understand its implications, and you believe you are paying too much for it, and you’re religious (which is probably a given, sorry), you’ll eat this shit up like sugarcoated, marshmallow-filled chocolate. And, hoo boy, having Satan behind it all? The government can’t do anything about this- all a believer has to think is that Satan is talking through their mouths and trying to bring them from the path of god, and thus should be ignored and refuted and fought against and brought down- which is what believers do, all the fucking time.

Another part of this Religious Mentality is this desire to be respected for your beliefs, no matter how dumb or terrible. What is the limit, believers? I have seen Green make terrible posts about Muslims and those against too many guns, but when it comes down to her Christian religion, should be nice.

Ok, Jennifer has calmed me down. I shall go watch Spartacus
Ok, Jennifer has calmed me down. I shall go watch Spartacus

P.S. Seriously people. Ya’ll know I love me some hot men and women doing cool shit. Why hasn’t anyone recommended Spartacus to me? I looked at one episode while watching Sunday’s “The Walking Dead”, going back and forth between commercials. My sister and I were like, “Why is everyone so good-looking?!”

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18 thoughts on “Religious Mentality is bad and dangerous: How can you believe this?”

  1. I couldn’t keep up with who was what color, except that you were dark blue, and some girl said President Obama was the antichrist, using the bible as her proof. I’m not here to convert anyone, but I am a Christian. I do not care what your belief system is, I just know what gets me through the day…Anyway, if people believe in the bible it tells us when the antichrist and the mark of the beast stuff will happen…It’s after the second coming of Christ to take the true believers to Heaven. That is when what is called The Great Tribulation will occur, and the mark of the beast.

    1. So she’s even more misinformed than I thought she was. Thanks for the info. I can now make the claim, that even if the ID chips were true, they wouldn’t be marks of the beast, since it would be after the second coming of Christ, and that chain letter needs to stop.

  2. To keep one’s faith in a religion, it seems to require lying to one’s self. That seems to ooze over into the entire lives of the faithful, to the point they must keep repeating lies since they have no other choice. If they admit one lie, then they find themselves needing to admit many and that is very hard to do for any human. Passing on lies shows that the liar is at best lazy and at worst malicious, thinking that they have some right to lie to others as long as they get their external validation.

    And sorry you didn’t know about Spartacus. My oh my that show is a naughty pleasure for me, such sleek beautiful people. It’s such a shame the fellow who first played Spartacus died far far too early.

    1. ;__; I didn’t know he was dead…

      It’s so terrible, though, about the lying to oneself. It’s like some sort of psychosis and there’s no way to get out of it. Hmph, why should I respect that.

      1. Sorry to have had to inform you of the fellow’s death. The folks who did the series were very supportive of the whole unfortunate thing. I keep thinking that doing the Spartacus workout would be a good thing and then I go “you’re almost 47, perhaps flipping tractor tires is a little extreme.”

  3. Ignorance and fear are dangerous, but to say that “Religious Mentality is bad and dangerous” is a stretch. I could site many examples of religiously-minded individuals who have done wonderful things for society, but that’s bordering on cliche (e.g., Mother Theresa?). An “anti-religious mentality” has the potential to be just as dangerous, and we’re starting to see a disturbing trend in that direction in America (specifically, blog, Facebook and news comments). We’re all in this together. Let’s be peacemakers. Peace, man. :)
    (And, oh, Spartacus is just an excuse for soft porn that’s why they’re all attractive. :) )

    1. But Religious Mentality is mainly based on ignorance and fear, as this post tries to underscore. Mother Theresa included. Not only that, it demands to be respected and given a free pass. Such a thing does not exist for anti-religious mentality. Somehow, we are shown to be a disturbing trend after years of so many become used to the garbage thrown by those of religious mentalities.

      I hold no peace with those spreading lies about the antichrist (I don’t believe in it, but I don’t take it lightly), especially with universal healthcare. I can hardly hold patience.

      Spartacus is soft porn, that’s why it is great. lol

      1. I COMPLETELY agree with you that ignorance and fear is at the heart of most religion. But then most of the damage we do as humans is born out of ignorance and fear—regardless of one’s religious/non-religious worldview. There is no mystery there. To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest at best and stereotypical at worst. “Religious” folks aren’t any worse than non-religious folks. There are plenty of examples of atrocities perpetrated by both camps.

        And, I agree with you regarding this whole ObamaCare-Anti-Christ scare. Ignorance and lies spread by fear-motivated individuals. It should be confronted, and for that, I appreciate your efforts. But please don’t group ALL religious people into that same corner of evil. (That’s the very definition of stereotyping.)

        Love will be the only thing that sets us apart from what we hate. Not more hate.

        Peace and love.

        1. Like I said, we hardly give as many free passes to the ignorant-filled fearful non-religious. Not to say you are the same, but I’ve never been told so hard not to stereotype or be mean to fearful, ignorant people who don’t use religion as a crutch. As soon as religion joins the game, oh, I need to back off.

          I’m sorry if it seems I’m grouping all religious people in that corner of evil. That’s not my intent. I had hoped to explain a large part of the religious mentality and how it is dangerous, mainly the ‘free pass’ part that those of non-religious backgrounds (or even different than Christian backgrounds in America) will never receive.

          1. Hi, again. :) Yup, again, I agree with you about the “free pass” although I’m not sure I know exactly what you’re talking about (i.e., I haven’t heard all of your arguments yet, to be fair). But the evil perpetrated by the likes of the KKK (in the name of god) or Fred Phelp’s “church” (in the name of god), etc., etc., etc., certainly have been given too many free passes. We should all confront assholes like them! And I think “we” have over the years. (Abolition movement, etc.)
            And I can understand why most would group all religious believers together. Understandable but not justifiable. That doesn’t make any more sense than grouping all whites together or all blacks together for good or bad. Does it? Or am I wrong? Stereotypes are dangerous. I’m not saying you should back off because they’re religious, I’m saying be careful not to start creating another group for others to start hating. Or does backlash just feel good? Or is it some insatiable need for revenge?
            Here’s what we know: religious people (from all religions) have done terrible things and religious people (from all religions) have done wonderful things for humanity. Am I wrong? It’s not a belief problem, it’s a human problem. We’re screwed up.
            But I hear you. I understand better what you’re getting at. I’m “religious” (I hate that word because it has so many strange connotations, which is a whole post in itself) but I’d be happy to work with you side by side to discourage the ignorance you’ve described in your post.

            1. I’m a bit confused on where we’re diverging. Are you saying that me saying that religious mentality is bad is an unfair stereotype because we as humans do good and bad things no matter our beliefs?

              If that is so, I disagree. I would even argue that there may be some believers without the religious mentality. I can’t think of some degree of it that won’t be allowable in, say, a conspirator mentality or anti-religious mentality.

        2. I’d have to say that religion has the higher body count. There are folks who believe in UFOs but they didn’t have an inquisition. Religion allows a human to think that there is a divine super being that approves of the same silliness that they believe. That allows humans to decide that humans who don’t agree with them are less than human, e.g. “sinful”. We have Christianity that says that anyone who doesn’t believe in them can have genocide committed against them. It seems, to me, that secular law, is the only thing that keeps such people like the idiots who say that homosexuals deserve death from doing the atrocity against Matthew Shepard over and over again. They are at least smart enough to not want to go to prison. If we had a theocracy, such acts would be considered god approved.

          The non-religious folks who have committed similar atrocities were megalomaniacs. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, all needing worship themselves. I have heard this nonsense trying to claim “but but atheists are just as bad.” And it just isn’t supported by the facts.

          I do hope, that you being religious, eclecticpills, that you speak out as loudly as I do against your fellow theists if they do something horrible. I do not hear enough of you speaking out and love will not stop such liars as your fellow theists (I’m guessing Christians). It takes the hard work of saying that such nonsense is false. I do understand that many theists keep quiet since they know that their beliefs are just as questionable as people like Fred Phelps. You claim to be the True Christian just like he does, and know you have no more evidence for your belief than he does. It presents a problem; one that I understand far too well having been a believer myself.

          1. Sorry, took a bathroom break…Seriously, sorry for the delay in my response. I appreciate your comments. Lot of good challenges here, but also a lot of common misconceptions. First of all, there should be a clear distinction made between
            Just to be clear (sorry in advance for the CAPS): A RELIGIOUS MENTALITY (based on fear and ignorance) IS DANGEROUS. That may not make sense to most “non believers”, but someone can reject “organized” religion (man-made rules, regulations) for what they believe to be a spiritual relationship with a deity. A silly thing for atheist, I know, being an atheist most of my life.
            It’s easier to pull and respond to most of your quotes, so here goes:
            “I’d have to say that religion has the higher body count.”
            Only because until recent history, most humans have had some religious affiliation. I’ll hate to see atheism’s body count in the end. I’m thinking it isn’t going to look good. Again, this is a human issue, not a religion/non-religion issue, ultimately. Religion is merely one of many fuels thrown on the bonfire of humanity.

            “That allows humans to decide that humans who don’t agree with them are less than human, e.g. “sinful”.”
            Humans (i.e., all of us) continuously find reasons for others to be “less than human”—This is not exclusive to religion but certainly is prevalent within most religions. That is purely based on our fears and ignorance. Again, it doesn’t “allow” it but it can encourage those who are ill informed.
            “We have Christianity that says that anyone who doesn’t believe in them can have genocide committed against them.”
            This is a strange and general statement, that I’m not sure how to answer, honestly. *Sigh* But I’ll try. I guess I’d just say those examples of “Christian atrocities” were the result of powerful, political elements that co-opted Christianity for their own purposes, pulling in those who were subject to fear because of their ignorance (e.g., the Crusades). Certainly not Christ’s purposes. Honestly, where is that behavior anywhere justified in the teachings of Jesus? I missed that somewhere…

            “It seems, to me, that secular law, is the only thing that keeps such people like the idiots who say that homosexuals deserve death from doing the atrocity against Matthew Shepard over and over again. They are at least smart enough to not want to go to prison. If we had a theocracy, such acts would be considered god approved.”
            While quick to label our American system of justice “secular,” our founders didn’t shy away from attributing the foundation of said system to Judeo-Christian ethics. I’d have to admit it can be difficult at times understanding the relationship between “Old Testament” and “New Testament” ethics, but it primarily shows the difference between judgment and grace—with grace prevailing.
            “The non-religious folks who have committed similar atrocities were megalomaniacs. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, all needing worship themselves. I have heard this nonsense trying to claim “but but atheists are just as bad.” And it just isn’t supported by the facts.”
            A very tired and slippery atheist argument. Whether they worshipped themselves or not, the fact is, they were still atheists. They were most certainly “godless.” That is a very important distinction that needs to be made. I challenge you that atheists are not free from some form of “idolatry” whether self-worship or the trust in worldview that gives them comfort. In that sense, we all have “faith.”

            “I do hope, that you being religious, eclecticpills, that you speak out as loudly as I do against your fellow theists if they do something horrible.”
            Ha! Was I that transparent? To answer your question: No, I don’t speak out as much as I should. And I completely agree with you. It angers me probably as much as it angers you. I just haven’t found the best platform for expressing and communicating my frustrations. I appreciate the challenge. However, history is replete with Christians arguing with other so-called Christians about the true meaning of scripture (e.g., slavery, racism, sexism, etc.) and prevailing. And history is also replete with true, loving believers being persecuted for…believing. That is no mystery. That’s where it is to be expected and not given a free pass (to Shinashi’s point). Jesus never shied away from persecution, never defended himself (like I’m doing?), but only confronted ideas and mindsets that could harm others.

            “I do not hear enough of you speaking out and love will not stop such liars as your fellow theists (I’m guessing Christians).”
            You’re absolutely right. Western Christians are complacent and lazy. But I do hear challenges within those circles. There are voices of reason, and most don’t subscribe to such internet tripe as evidenced above (at least not what I’ve seen). These are the extremists and also those not willing to educate themselves—again a HUMAN problem, not a belief problem.

            You know, we’re much closer in our arguments than you think. I agree with you on so much of this, but we’re just coming to different conclusions. Man-made religion that is truly not spiritual is dangerous. It feeds on fear and ignorance. Too many motivations based on guilt and fear.
            BUT what if someone’s motivation is love? Or the motivation from being loved? Doesn’t that change things? Can’t the outcome be positive? If you’ve found the (human) love of your life, doesn’t that person change your outlook on everything when you know they care deeply (albeit imperfectly) about you? I think most of us have experienced that and have no doubts about the power of such a relationship. I believe that is the motivation of many believers (but not most, unfortunately) because I’ve seen so much evidence of that in those people.

            And, oh, to answer something you posted farther up the comments: No, I haven’t had to lie to myself about anything to believe, but I do take the RISK of believing the existence of God, which is merely a statement of where to place trust…and we ALL do that in one form or another (e.g., science, self, God, etc.).

            I feel I have seen evidence that would appear Fred Phelps has missed. Not proof but evidence. Based on that evidence, I choose to believe based on a foundation of love.

            1. EP,
              Your post is pretty typical of a Christian trying to excuse his religion.

              It’s amusing that rather than address the number of deaths caused by religion, you have to make up a claim that atheism will cause more “in the end”. Nice vague baseless claim. You have no evidence that atheism will cause more deaths and only have your opinion that it will. You don’t even have the slightest indication it will go that way, which ends up making your claims a sick hope at best and an intentional lie at worst. How sad, relying on hoping that something bad will happen to support your nonsense.

              A religious mentality is dangerous. Religion is based on ignorance and fear. Ignorance of reality e.g. no evidence for any god and fear, that one must be afraid of this imaginary being or it will hurt you. If you don’t obey what you think it wants, then you’ll be harmed, so you are stuck believing that you *must* convert others no matter what, that you must take the lands it supposedly wants no matter what, etc. An atheist knows that all religion is man made, it is the theist who thinks that their belief, and theirs alone is what their god “really” meant.

              So many Christians like you run from the term “religion”. You don’t want to admit that you are following the same nonsense that the people who did horrible things followed. You want to claim that “my religion is different, and oooh, don’t call it religion at all since I am uncomfortable with it.” Well, sorry EP, but you follow a religion, a system of worship of a deity. So does Fred Phelps, the Ayatollah, etc. They have just as much evidence for a “spiritual relationship” with their deity as you do yours.

              You of course try to claim that it’s not religion’s fault, but humans. Yep, since humans created religion and the gods that they worship. There is no magical truths that any theist has. None of you has demosntrated this and you all have shown that you are nothing more than a good ol’ human and that your claims are nothing more than the claims of humans. You also use the tedious old claim that anyone but you is “ill informed” about your god and anyone who doesn’t do exactly as you do isn’t a TrueChristian. Yes, all we see from you is that those “other” Christians were “powerful political elements” that poor poor Christianity was co-opted and darn if its god couldn’t do anything about it. Well, dear EP, you want to know where in the teachings of your god and JC says that genocide is a good thing. The entire bible since JC himself said that the OT was just fine with him. All of the words of his “father” stand without question. Your trying to cut JC off from the violent words of himself/God is amusing. But if you want to go just with JC and Paul and the goodies in the NT, we have JC saying that he brought a sword, that one needs to hate (yes, hate, not another word) anyone who doesn’t believe in the “right” way, that one can kill those who do not accept Jesus as king (luke 19), and oh all of the excellent violence against non-believers in Revelation. You see, EP, you want to rewrite what you want JC to have “really meant”, so you ignore those parts that you don’t like, so of course you “miss” what you don’t want to see. It’s not a new thing, all Christians create their religion in their own image.

              EP, you also lie about the founding fathers of the US. No, they did not attribute the foundation of our laws to the Bible. It is based on English common law. We certainly can see a lot of laws in the bible and we see less than 1% of them in any form in US law. You see, I am wondering where there is any kind of democracy in your bible? Not eating pork? Shellfish? Not wearing mixed fibers? Killing a man and woman for adultery? Killing someone for being homosexual? Having only one god and that being the Judeo/Christian one? Not building idols? Gee, all of these laws and they aren’t in the US laws at all.

              It’s always just hilarious that you think your version of the relationship between the OT and NT is the only right one. Your fellow Christians that you don’t agree with have their own, and again, all of you have no more evidence that yours is any more valid than the next.

              I also love how you want to call my fact offered that megalomaniacs who were atheists committed atrocities is a “slippery slope” but of course can’t show how it is. Tsk. There is nothing that shows that atheism causes people to cause genocides. If you think there is, present the evidence. IF you cannot, you again are lying. And dear, I’m free of idolatry, I worship nothing. Now, EP, if you can show I do, please do. Or are you lying again? No, we do not all have faith nor do we all worship anything. Trust is not worship and it’s a shame that you try to make such a pathetic claim. Trust is based on facts that someone will tell you the truth. You need a reason to trust, not only blind hope and faith. You do need a dictionary since you think you can make up definitions as soon as it suits you. That’s one of the best “tells” that a Christian realizes that they are failing, trying to make up definitions that support their lies.

              It doesn’t surprise me that you don’t speak out. And things evidently bother me much more than they bother you since you do nothing. You only offer excuses. Oh darn, you can’t find the “best platform”. Well, find an “okay” platform then. And I love again how you claim that other Christians aren’t TrueChristians but offer no evidence of this other than they don’t agree with you. Tsk. And yes, JC did shy away from persecution. He ran away from it when convenient, Luke 4. And he did defend himself, against the priests when they questioned him and said he was wrong. I’ve read the bible, I know when you are spouting nonsense about it. Let me guess, you’ll try to redefine words again and say that he really wasn’t defending, he was doing something else. Again, check the dictionary.

              So, EP, until you can show me that you are the TrueChristian and those others aren’t, your arguments hold no more water than Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson. All of your claims of having some magical truth are false as are your claims that Christianity is only what you say it is. Your version is less offensive than others but it is still based on myths and nonsense. Your version is just as human and flawed as other ideas about gods and divine approval are. It’s all a human problem since your belief is in something imaginary.

              Love is human too and nothing magical about that either. Christians constantly claim love, and again, what you mean by that varies immensely. You define it to your worldview. You want to claim your god is love, but that is not demonstrated at all in your religion. Your god even fails your bible’s definition of it. So, when you claim that you are only motivated by love, no one can be sure what you mean. I define love as the desire to see another happy. Do you?

              Science has given evidence to allow people to trust it. I do not blindly accept science, it works objectively.
              Again, no dear, we do not “all” believe in things that have no evidence supporting their existence. You keep repeating that and it doesn’t become any less a lie with the next repetition.

              Now, please do show the evidence that you have your god exists so we can compare apples to apples and not your usual attempt to try to redefine words. Faith is not trust. Hope is not trust. As the bible says, faith is in things unseen. Tell me why you have no faith in other things that are “unseen”? You claim you have evidence and that you have evidence that Fred Phelps is wrong. Where is it. I’ve seen a lot of claims of this from Christians and they all cannot provide it. I’ll be waiting.

              1. Wow, CSF, that’s some burning there, or at least attempts to burn. I was hoping you would point out the claims of genocide in the Bible, because I’ve read versions of the Bible that definitely assert it when such awfulness is necessary.

                And EP is making the point that whatever evil things can be done for religion can be done without religion. But the point of opposite arguments from atheists is that people do things for religion. No one does anything for atheism. If the reason you’re bullying a homosexual is because of your religion, which, in fact, does call homosexuality a sin, and you’re protected under the constitution to have these beliefs- that has nothing to do with being human, and is all because of religious mentality.

                I can’t speak for all atheists on this, but when someone does something I don’t like, even atrocities, they don’t look less human.For those that are sinful, and I believe this goes for the religious, too, they aren’t less human either, just more deserving of hate, and fire and brimstone.

                “That may not make sense to most “non believers”, but someone can reject “organized” religion (man-made rules, regulations) for what they believe to be a spiritual relationship with a deity.”

                But the rules and regulations aren’t believed to be man-made and are the crux of what someone believes is the foundation of a spiritual relationship with a deity. ‘Organized’ religion isn’t any different from having a spiritual relationship with a deity.

  4. I apologize again for my delayed response, but I have better things to do than get in a futile argument about religion/atheism—things we can’t prove either way. I’m looking for commonality with you as a human, not division.
    Body count: I have no argument with you that humans have used religion as an excuse to kill each other (including Christianity). But that’s just it, humans seem to need others to blame/kill for their own issues. The story of Cain and Abel illustrates this so well. I’ve heard reasonable atheists admit that all humans have a propensity toward violence (and a propensity toward love—an interesting dichotomy). Think of modern America: most murders have nothing to do with religion. Drugs, jealousy, domestic violence, etc.
    I do NOT hope that atheists have a higher body count. I just see that there is a good chance we’ll have more and more Stalins and Pol Pots along the way responsible for killing millions. (Yes, they were atheists; it’s well documented.) While they may not kill for atheism, their atheism didn’t apparently give them reason not to kill. (An absence of “Thou shall not kill.”) I’m not lying about that.
    Law: I’m not lying about the founding fathers and our law. English common law was based on the PRINCIPLES (not specific laws) of Mosaic Law, Christian principles and Roman law. (How many more times am I going to hear the tired “well we don’t outlaw eating pork” argument? Stupid.)
    Luke 19: it’s a parable. You can’t prove that Christ is violent by that passage. Besides, you can always isolate scriptures to prove your point. You’re doing the same thing the worst religious offenders do—like Fred Phelps. Yes, Fred Phelps has a disturbing pattern that is very easy to distinguish from other genuine believers.
    Ultimately, civility is important in these conversations. Unfortunately, I’ve had too many arguments with atheists who were rude, condescending, ridiculing, intimidating and used name calling as some method to “prove their negatives” about religion. But I’ve also talked to nice, reasonable atheists too. They weren’t too dogmatic in the beliefs (yes, beliefs). And isn’t civility what you’re arguing about in the first place? Allowing others the freedom from being forced to believe something they don’t believe? Without civility, people stop talking, when they stop talking, they start to stereotype, when they start to stereotype, they start marginalizing, when they start marginalizing, they encourage persecution, when they start persecuting, the inevitable next steps becomes incarceration and death. History is replete with this pattern.
    It is reasonable that there is much of the universe that is unknown (and quite possibly, unknowable) to our finite minds.
    It is reasonable that there are dimensions to the universe that we cannot understand with our natural senses.
    It is reasonable that there are supernatural events not explained by naturalistic thinking.
    It is reasonable to believe in something unproven; we do it every day in every way.
    “Because I don’t see your god, he/she/it doesn’t exist.” Really? Haven’t we learned anything from our human existence? Haven’t we learned that we don’t know everything? Why are we so arrogant? Why are we so dogmatic?
    I don’t feel that I am dogmatic in my beliefs. But I have a strong sense of confidence that what I believe exists. Could I be wrong? Absolutely! I’m willing to admit that. And I’m certainly not going to force anyone to believe what I believe if it hurts others.

    Like I said, I’m willing to be wrong in my belief system. I have nothing to fear but those who don’t agree with me and want to do me harm. I could be wrong about the whole thing. In the meantime, I’m not doing anyone any harm. And to answer your question: yes, I do believe the definition of love is the desire to see one happy, but it has to go beyond that and to see what best for them. (Parents don’t look at only what makes their children happy.) You’ll probably read into that last statement, but please don’t. Free will is paramount.
    You’re not helping your “cause” with your apparent dogmatism. And you’re only proving that you’re becoming the very thing you hate so much. You believe the absence of a god to be TRUTH. That is your absolute assertion, it would appear. Am I correct?
    You BELIEVE in something. You TRUST in something. You have FAITH that the universe works only the way science sees it—that’s scientism. That’s evident in how you and other atheists talk. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t be as defensive and dogmatic as you are. You start from a certain presupposition and you carry it out to its “logical” conclusion. But we all do it; we all allow our worldview to guide where we want to go. Please don’t patronize the rest of us by priding yourself by being different.
    Why attack me for my admission that I don’t speak out there as often (as you do)? Wow. Nice judgmental attitude. So are you a social activist 24 hours/day, all year long? I didn’t say I wasn’t doing anything; I said I wasn’t doing enough. Beside everyone has a different role to play in society. You speak out; I feed the poor (as an example).
    I grew up an atheist. Even as a little boy, I remember thinking “What’s wrong with these people [to believe in a god they couldn’t see]?” I grew up in an atheistic/agnostic household that went to church on rare occasions merely to appease Grandmother. And I remember that in college, I got in my mother’s face and SCREAMED at her for even remotely being tempted to believe in god. “I don’t believe in any mythological god!!!”
    I’ve been there. I know. I lived it. I was a self-proclaimed atheist for most of my young life.
    What changed? I didn’t NEED to believe. I wasn’t looking for it, but I had some supernatural experiences very personal to me that didn’t easily fit into my atheistic/scientific mindset at the time. I was compelled by evidence there were other perspectives I didn’t have before. So, in other words, it wasn’t out of fear that I became a believer but out of a curiosity (and a love I never experienced before).
    I’ve seen that so many times from both sides: believers becoming non-believers and atheists becoming believers. So what gives? I think it’s merely those people willing to look at life from a different perspective and when they do, they see how narrow their thinking was in the first place. (That goes both ways.)
    My atheist, biochemist father could see his universe in only one way, a set of presuppositions. There was no place for anything supernatural. If it couldn’t be measured, if it couldn’t be observed, it wasn’t true. But on his death bed, when he was lucid (according to nurses), he had an experience he described to me as “meeting Jesus”—something he wasn’t compelled to do, since he claimed he wasn’t at all afraid to die. In the end, he claimed he believed. After all those years of being an atheist, he believed in something he couldn’t measure, couldn’t observe.
    So what’s the point of all this? Again, I (hastily) jumped into this comment space to do one simple thing: to gently warn Shinashi not to marginalize believers through the use of stereotyping. That’s all. I probably didn’t answer all your challenges, but we digress, in my opinion, because we are not going to convince each other of anything. I think we both could spend our time in more constructive ways. If you want the last word, have at it. But I’ll bow out now.
    Thank you for the opportunity to dialogue. And peace to you, in all sincerity.

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